Manila, Philippines – Leila de Lima was launched from detention final month into what the previous Philippines senator calls “a whole new world”.
In 2016, then-President Rodrigo Duterte promised to “destroy” de Lima, one of many loudest critics of his lethal drug struggle. The president’s supporters started focusing on the first-term senator and former human rights commissioner – ridiculing her for an alleged romantic affair together with her driver, and accusing her of involvement in drug trafficking.
In February 2017, she was arrested on drug prices she denies and that worldwide observers have stated are politically motivated.
“I had this deep sense of disbelief,” de Lima informed Al Jazeera. “I never thought that Mr Duterte would go to that extent, that length, of jailing me. I thought it would just be daily vilification, personal attacks, attacks against my womanhood.”
In 2022, Duterte’s time period got here to an finish and he was changed by Ferdinand Marcos Jr, the son of dictator Ferdinand Marcos Sr. Whereas Marcos has deserted a lot of Duterte’s incendiary rhetoric in the direction of critics, drug struggle killings and human rights abuses have continued beneath his administration.
De Lima was lastly granted bail final month in any case however one of many witnesses who testified towards her recanted their statements; some have stated they gave pressured testimonies. Duterte has now left politics, though his daughter, Sara, is vice chairman. Each may very well be topic to an investigation into the drug struggle by the Worldwide Felony Court docket, though Duterte pulled Manila out of the court docket in 2019.
A member of the opposition Liberal Social gathering, de Lima spoke at size about Marcos, whose alliance with the Duterte household is starting to fracture publicly. Marcos is now learning cooperation with the ICC after insisting earlier this yr he would shut out its investigators.
De Lima, 64, says she plans to return to her non-public regulation follow and has no plans to run for workplace after shedding a Senate reelection bid from jail final yr. However she refuses to stay silent, promising to not give her political enemies the “satisfaction” after her extended detention. “I would ask myself, is it worth it?” she stated. “The answer was always yes.”
This interview has been edited for size and readability.
Al Jazeera: How are you adjusting to freedom?
Leila de Lima: I’m steadily adjusting and getting my bearings again. There’s a sense of disorientation after spending nearly seven years in closed, constricted, confined quarters.
It was painful for me to be away from my household and buddies. There have been nights that I’d actually cry. My mum [who suffers from dementia] didn’t know I used to be in jail. What she knew was that I used to be in america on research go away.
It was merely hurtful and revolting, on the identical time, as a result of I didn’t should be in jail.
Al Jazeera: What did Duterte hope to attain by arresting you?
Leila de Lima: He destroyed my public persona and my political life as a result of so many individuals believed him. And that was, if I’ll say so, an excellent technique on his half, as a result of [he and his allies] thought few folks would consider these accusations about my alleged drug hyperlinks. In order that they considered first demeaning me and destroying my womanhood in order that extra folks would consider their accusations.
It was so foul, it was so despicable of him to look into my non-public life, utilizing that and demeaning my individual, my character, my popularity.
Al Jazeera: You acquired in depth help from overseas, however much less so within the Philippines. Have been you shocked?
Leila de Lima: It was anticipated. I anticipated most in Congress, and even the Supreme Court docket, to be cowed. And the help of the worldwide neighborhood was additionally anticipated as a result of Duterte was not precisely the favorite of democratic nations. I simply occurred to be the image of opposition towards his drug struggle, this murderous drug struggle.
I would like the world to all the time be watching our nation as a result of it helped. One thing worse may have been finished to me had been it not for the curiosity of the worldwide neighborhood.
Al Jazeera: Duterte and his allies habitually used misogynistic and gendered language to assault you and different ladies who opposed him. What has made such assaults so efficient within the Philippines?
Leila de Lima: It’s nonetheless a male-dominated society. The machismo tradition remains to be there. We see very profitable ladies in nearly all fields, but it surely’s nonetheless a problem for us to be recognised for our personal deserves, not for our sexuality. Girls have extra empathy – it will be a extra best society if extra ladies leaders had been in authorities.
After Duterte’s assaults, I obtained greater than 2,000 hate messages on my cellular phone. Unprintable phrases. So I needed to eliminate my cellular phone.
Al Jazeera: How did you react as you noticed these ways from inside detention?
Leila de Lima: He brought about numerous hurt to this nation. He has demolished establishments, he has co-opted establishments, ruined our cultural values. However I by no means misplaced religion within the Filipino folks, simply as I didn’t lose religion within the justice system.
I anxious concerning the desensitisation of the folks, the insanity of encouraging killings and never observing the rule of regulation and due course of. I used to be alarmed that so few folks had been standing up towards him.
Al Jazeera: Has that desensitisation carried over into the current beneath Marcos?
Leila de Lima: There are actually some developments that present we are actually within the normalisation course of beneath the brand new administration. The method to the drug drawback has drastically modified, from [extrajudicial] and state-inspired killings to a extra humane method to the struggle on medication. And there’s additionally some democratic area now. There’s much less repression and fewer harassment of critics and dissenters.
I’d wish to consider it’s a optimistic development. We’ve got to dismantle the dangerous legacies of the Duterte regime, particularly within the space of human rights. Additionally, veering away from China and going again to our conventional allies is a really optimistic improvement.
Al Jazeera: While you had been launched, you thanked Marcos for “respecting the independence of the judiciary”. Do you assume there’s nonetheless work to be finished?
Leila de Lima: There’s nonetheless work to be finished. However this administration simply must be clear in its respect for the independence of the judiciary. Duterte would all the time attempt to co-opt the judiciary, such because the elimination [in 2018] of Chief Justice [Maria Lourdes] Sereno from the Supreme Court docket.
I don’t assume there’s any nation with an ideal justice system. However my case has been a visual instance of how an impartial judiciary can yield very optimistic outcomes.
Al Jazeera: In September, activists Jhed Tamano and Jonila Castro accused the army of forcibly abducting them. Justice Secretary Jesus Crispin Remulla has publicly questioned their story, regardless of presumably being neutral, and their lawyer has accused the Supreme Court docket of failing to behave after they filed a safety order. Ought to the Marcos administration be extra proactive in such circumstances in making certain judicial independence?
Leila de Lima: After all, this administration ought to be extra proactive in all the pieces. It’s beset with numerous challenges. And the remnants of the previous regime are nonetheless there. So if the seeds are nonetheless there, and if nothing a lot is finished to eliminate them, then you’ll be able to count on the previous methods to be revived.
The Nationwide Job Pressure to Finish Native Communist Armed Battle [alleged to play a large role in the abduction] ought to be dismantled straight away. It has served no function besides to sow disunity and encourage human rights violations. That’s why now we have the circumstances of Jhed and Jonila.
Al Jazeera: How nicely are you aware President Marcos?
Leila de Lima: I don’t know him, I simply know him because the son of the previous dictator. We met as soon as [in 2016], and we hardly talked.
I simply know him as a president now. And I’ve been observing him. He’s making an attempt his finest, I feel, to chop himself from the legacy and stigma of his father. Though they’re under no circumstances acknowledging that, they’re not apologetic about it. However he’s making an attempt as a lot as attainable to construct his personal picture.
We talked over the telephone after I used to be taken hostage in jail. He requested how I used to be and stated he may switch me to a safer place, however I stated I’d reasonably keep in my detention quarters. He stated he would make certain my quarters had been safer, and positive sufficient, they bolstered my safety there.
Al Jazeera: Marcos Jr’s reluctance to acknowledge the atrocities of his father’s martial rule has led critics to fret his presidency doesn’t bode nicely for democracy within the Philippines. Ought to he do extra to distance himself from his father?
Leila de Lima: Sure. It’s fairly robust on his half. He had little political expertise. He wants extra or higher advisers round him, authorized and political advisers and consultants. And he should get his priorities straight, should actually attend to the challenges of the economic system, to inflation. It’s robust on his half as a result of he’s making an attempt to construct his personal identify.
Al Jazeera: As president, Duterte embraced the legacy of Marcos Sr, which many consider paved the way in which for his son to turn out to be president. Is it honest to say this presidency wouldn’t exist with out the one earlier than it?
Leila de Lima: What is obvious to me is that it was an alliance of comfort. They wanted one another. Duterte would have needed his daughter to be the candidate, however [former President] Gloria Macapagal Arroyo solid a partnership [where Marcos and Sara Duterte would share a ticket] as a result of [Liberal Party candidate] Leni Robredo was having a powerful displaying with voters. It was a formidable alliance.
Al Jazeera: With Marcos in energy, that alliance is now beginning to fracture. Is there a degree the place, simply as Marcos and Duterte wanted one another, Marcos might have to show to Duterte’s critics, similar to your self and Maria Ressa?
Leila de Lima: That is still to be seen. All of it will depend on what values we will generally share. Proper now, we’re sharing these values, these targets, particularly within the matter of the ICC investigation and the human rights facet of this nation.
So for so long as we share these beliefs and people values, there’s all the time that chance. We’re not ruling that out. And for so long as he treads the suitable path of governance, there may be the probability that a number of the help will likely be there.
However we nonetheless think about ourselves, the Liberal Social gathering, because the opposition. We’re not that noisy as a result of we’re nonetheless observing him. However we will see the distinction from Duterte. That’s why we can’t overtly be hostile to him at this level.
Al Jazeera: Do you assume Duterte supporters might break from Marcos over a possible ICC investigation?
Leila de Lima: There’s all the time that chance. However we will see the weakening of the Duterte affect. He was perceived to be invincible. However we will see now that he’s not. We are able to say the identical factor with Sara. She will not be that highly effective. When her father’s affect weakens, then that goes together with her.
Al Jazeera: What kind of function would you play in an ICC investigation?
Leila de Lima: Each advisory and proactive. It will depend on what the ICC wants from me.
Al Jazeera: Final week, a gaggle of households of drug struggle victims launched an announcement by means of their attorneys, saying: “We would not have needed the ICC had the Philippine government squarely addressed the war on drugs. But it did not, and has not.” Certainly, since Marcos took energy in June 2022, there have been no convictions in what may very well be as much as 30,000 deaths.
Leila de Lima: There’s no argument that the justice system is working. We’ve got been investigating already, but it surely’s very poor. The ICC is prepared and really a lot able to doing these investigations. And nothing was taking place insofar as the upper echelons of these accountable for the killings, no authorities or home authority was investigating Duterte and Senator Ronald dela Rosa [previously Duterte’s police chief and top enforcer of the war on drugs].
The households of the drug struggle victims have each motive to complain and be pissed off about all of it.
Al Jazeera: Ought to Marcos have ordered investigations into the drug struggle upon taking energy?
Leila de Lima: Sure, that’s the best scenario. That’s what we had been anticipating when the brand new administration got here in. However as I stated, multiple yr, and there’s solely an investigation into low-level perpetrators. We’ve got not seen something greater than that.
So it will be too late now. The ICC is at an additional stage of its investigation. So [deferring to the ICC] is affordable, it’s sensible, and it’s protecting with the dictates of justice and accountability.
The issue is simply how quickly the ICC investigation can transfer and lead to a concrete improvement, just like the issuance of a warrant of arrest. That might make folks consider the ICC is severe, and that its investigation is one thing we will sit up for.
Al Jazeera: To you, would the prosecution of Duterte by the ICC really feel like the start of a therapeutic course of?
Leila de Lima: He must be made accountable for what he did to me. I’m not a vindictive individual; it’s not for vengefulness. It’s a matter of justice. I’m a sufferer of gross injustice.
I must be totally vindicated. I would like folks to know the reality about my innocence. I would like folks to understand how and what he has finished to me. So full vindication is what I’m after.
